Comments on: Light of the World http://theimperfectdisciples.com/index.php/2009/10/05/light-of-the-world/ faith, discipleship, fiction - from the desks of Clark D. Goble and Todd French Mon, 23 Jan 2012 04:40:17 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= By: Clark Goble http://theimperfectdisciples.com/index.php/2009/10/05/light-of-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-165 Clark Goble Sun, 11 Oct 2009 19:06:56 +0000 http://theimperfectdisciples.com/?p=399#comment-165 Very thought-provoking post Todd! I will disagree with you just slightly. While I agree that this passage is not about "beating" us into a certain behavior, I disagree that it has nothing at all to do with our actions. Like Adam L., I think genuine, deep relationships with God should birth certain actions. Minds such as John Wesley and Matthew Henry seem to agree that these passages speak a great deal to our actions. As to Christ's concern with our behavior, later in Matthew, Christ says, "By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?" I think this verse is evidence that He is concerned about our behavior. You are correct that many people have used these passages to brow beat people into certain behaviors. Turning Christianity into a religion of works is one of the hardest temptations to resist. John Piper calls it the "debtor's ethic." It is the temptation to "pay back" Christ for His sacrifice on the cross with our works ... it is futile pursuit that totally cheapens the Grace that Christ rewarded us with. The key is to find that genuine faith and gratitude of spirit that leads to good works naturally. I entirely agree with you that there is a depth and richness to these verses that is often missed by translators. Very thought-provoking post Todd! I will disagree with you just slightly. While I agree that this passage is not about “beating” us into a certain behavior, I disagree that it has nothing at all to do with our actions. Like Adam L., I think genuine, deep relationships with God should birth certain actions. Minds such as John Wesley and Matthew Henry seem to agree that these passages speak a great deal to our actions.

As to Christ’s concern with our behavior, later in Matthew, Christ says, “By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?” I think this verse is evidence that He is concerned about our behavior.

You are correct that many people have used these passages to brow beat people into certain behaviors. Turning Christianity into a religion of works is one of the hardest temptations to resist. John Piper calls it the “debtor’s ethic.” It is the temptation to “pay back” Christ for His sacrifice on the cross with our works … it is futile pursuit that totally cheapens the Grace that Christ rewarded us with.

The key is to find that genuine faith and gratitude of spirit that leads to good works naturally.

I entirely agree with you that there is a depth and richness to these verses that is often missed by translators.

]]> By: Adam L. http://theimperfectdisciples.com/index.php/2009/10/05/light-of-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-164 Adam L. Wed, 07 Oct 2009 00:46:37 +0000 http://theimperfectdisciples.com/?p=399#comment-164 Initially I did not really agree, but upon further reading, I get the feeling that you are discussing the underlying message or foundation of the message that is commonly preached. You already mentioned that it is not the deeds or actions that are focused on but the fundamental essence of a person that is being referenced. I think that if a genuine child of God DOES focus on this essence of what he has become and the relationship he/she has with God through Christ, then the good deeds fall in line in such a way that the lessons are classically preached. It seems to me that your line of action eventually yields the line of action that you say the text is not about. So essentially, I agree and disagree. An example of how I understand the relationship between what you say the scripture is and is not about is like a scientist saying "it is not that an object is hot or cold, it is just the degree to which its molecules are moving" (which is what temperature is: the measurement of molecular movement) All in all, I like that you made me think this hard ^_^ Thanks for the post dude and keep shinin' your light Initially I did not really agree, but upon further reading, I get the feeling that you are discussing the underlying message or foundation of the message that is commonly preached. You already mentioned that it is not the deeds or actions that are focused on but the fundamental essence of a person that is being referenced. I think that if a genuine child of God DOES focus on this essence of what he has become and the relationship he/she has with God through Christ, then the good deeds fall in line in such a way that the lessons are classically preached.

It seems to me that your line of action eventually yields the line of action that you say the text is not about. So essentially, I agree and disagree. An example of how I understand the relationship between what you say the scripture is and is not about is like a scientist saying “it is not that an object is hot or cold, it is just the degree to which its molecules are moving” (which is what temperature is: the measurement of molecular movement)

All in all, I like that you made me think this hard ^_^ Thanks for the post dude and keep shinin’ your light

]]> By: Guido http://theimperfectdisciples.com/index.php/2009/10/05/light-of-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-163 Guido Tue, 06 Oct 2009 01:40:46 +0000 http://theimperfectdisciples.com/?p=399#comment-163 You have definitely brought out a different perspective that I've never really thought about. While I don't totally agree that all the text is passive, if you look at the context of what is being said, then maybe you've hit on something generally missed. When comparing salt loosing it's saltiness to us as Christians loosing our committment and dedication to our Lord; and hiding our light under a bowl or more simple saying we shutter or block our effectiveness to be seen; in letting our light shine so that others may see it, we have to actually be doing something for the Lord that He might get credit for! I personally believe that we as Christians have the ultimate responsibility to adapt and adjust to what is going on in the world, not just so we might live comfortably in it, but to affect the world in a positive manner. Whether we do it as individuals or as a larger corporate group doesn't really matter. It's the fact that we are learning from our life experiences. Keep up the writing, you seem to continually hit on real issues of our faith in the Lord. You have definitely brought out a different perspective that I’ve never really thought about. While I don’t totally agree that all the text is passive, if you look at the context of what is being said, then maybe you’ve hit on something generally missed.

When comparing salt loosing it’s saltiness to us as Christians loosing our committment and dedication to our Lord; and hiding our light under a bowl or more simple saying we shutter or block our effectiveness to be seen; in letting our light shine so that others may see it, we have to actually be doing something for the Lord that He might get credit for!

I personally believe that we as Christians have the ultimate responsibility to adapt and adjust to what is going on in the world, not just so we might live comfortably in it, but to affect the world in a positive manner. Whether we do it as individuals or as a larger corporate group doesn’t really matter. It’s the fact that we are learning from our life experiences.

Keep up the writing, you seem to continually hit on real issues of our faith in the Lord.

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