Category Archives: Worship

What if There Were No Heaven?

Posted on February 18, 2010 by Clark Goble| 2 Comments
By Clark Goble | February 18, 2010

(This post originally appeared on the now defunct centurybound.com blog on December 22, 2005. It appears here with some major rewrites from the author.)

While surfing the internet, I happened upon the blog of an atheist who was asking the following question of her readers:

 “How many people would believe in a god if there were no rewards promised to the self for doing so?”

This rather loaded question is a complicated one. It is actually not meant to be a question, but rather an attack on the principles of Christianity. The atheist is suggesting that the Christian faith is a selfish one and insinuating that if there were no promise of Heaven, there would be few, if any, Christians. There is no chance I could ever answer the question to this particular atheist’s satisfaction because I suspect she believes she already knows the answer. Furthermore, I’m not sure there is a way to know the answer. Since there is a promise of Heaven, I have no idea how many Christians there would be if that promise was ripped out from under us. I suspect, rather sadly, there would be less. Possibly much less, but that is just a guess. I know that in my own experience, Heaven did not enter the equation. I chose to believe in God because I had an encounter with Him that began to make sense to me intellectually. I then chose to believe in Jesus Christ (and the Christian faith) specifically for an abundance of reasons – none of which were Heaven. I sort of see Heaven as the icing on the cake. Don’t get me wrong, I am glad the promise is there; but my faith doesn’t hinge on it.

I believe we can examine this question introspectively in a way that can help us examine our faith. What if today, we pondered the following question?

Would you still follow Jesus Christ if there were suddenly no promise of Heaven?

If our answer to this question is ‘no’, I would suggest that we may be on shaky ground spiritually. I spent the majority of life before Christ creating a particular version of God in my mind and then imposing those values on the real God. For instance, the God I created was all knowing and all powerful. He had created this world and then stepped back to see what would happen. He was a fair God who would allow pretty much anyone into Heaven provided they tried to live a good life (you know … paid their taxes, supported their children, didn’t kill anyone … that sort of thing). It was only when I humbled myself that I realized I had no right to impose my beliefs on God. If God were real, I had to allow Him to teach me about Himself and accept even what I didn’t understand. I had no business trying to invent God in my image. I had to understand and apply the old Axum that “Father Knows Best.” In other words, if God, in all His wisdom, suddenly decided there should be no Heaven, I would have to accept it – even if I didn’t understand it. I can’t worship God because of what He promises me, rather, I must worship God because He deserves it.

I am so thankful that my God has promised me Heaven. I also believe there is a hell. Hell, in my opinion, is proof that God loves us. How’s that you might ask? Well, if what we really want is a place that is free from the presence and influence of God, he will provide it for us even though it breaks His heart to do so. That place is hell. It’s not God that makes hell such a terrible place … it is the complete absence of God’s influence that makes hell so bad.

Even though I have a concrete belief in Heaven and hell, I can’t make that the focal point of my faith. Why? Well, if all I do is think about the future … someday far in the future … I am ignoring one of Jesus’ most powerful lessons. Jesus taught that the Kingdom of Heaven is near. What did He mean by that? I think He meant that we can experience Heaven right now in our mortal life. If hell is the total absence of God, then Heaven is living in God’s presence. In fact, Heaven is more than just the presence of God – it is a place where God’s Will is done. We can experience God’s presence and live in His will right now. If we spend all of our time looking towards the future, we will miss out on the beauty that is Heaven on Earth.

Think about it … we all know the bitter and depressed Christian who lives a miserable life and constantly talks about Heaven in the future tense. My heart goes out to these people. Thank God they have the promise of eternal life from the One True God to keep them going. I am not suggesting that it would be healthy to totally forget about our promise of Heaven; I just pray that someday we can all experience a shadow of Heaven right now!

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The Lesson of Babel

Posted on February 12, 2010 by Todd French| 3 Comments
By Todd French | February 12, 2010

For most of my life I’ve been a fanatical devotee of technology.  I believed there was no problem that a well-crafted technological solution couldn’t obviate.  I believed in this so fervently that it extended into my faith.  I believed that technology could reach the teeming masses for Christ.

And it has flourished.  TV ministries have exploded in size, scope, prevalence, and popularity.  There is a problem though.  To date, they have failed in what I see as the primary purpose of the medium.  The current and historical extrapolations of TV ministries have amassed prominence and power to the head of the ministry, but have done little to advance the cause of Christ.  These ministries typically reach the already reached and as such end up in a preaching to the choir mode.

They end up taking the kingdom where it already is and as such the best if can do is function as an adjunct to what is already going on.  The down side to these ministries relates to the numerous character flaws of the people who’ve lead them.  When the medium builds up someone it also magnifies their failures as well.  From Jimmy Swaggart to Jim Baker and beyond the character failures of these few have harmed the cause of Christ greatly.  These failures have hardened the hearts of those these ministries should have focused on reaching in the first place.

The failures of this medium didn’t deter me from my belief on this subject.  Rather, I believed it was implementation and the people behind it that were responsible for the failure.  I still ardently believed in the efficacy of technology to advance the gospel.  I simply transferred my preferred implementation of technology as the vehicle.

Next, I believed that radio could serve as the next vehicle.  Radio as a technology was mature.  It was cheap to obtain and it was everywhere.  So much so, that it is hard to find a place anywhere on the planet that isn’t served by radio in some form.  However it suffered from the same weaknesses as TV.  It elevated men with serious character defects and their fall was just as disastrous with the same down side as TV.

After two colossal candidate failures, I should have been deterred from continuing this quest, but I wasn’t.  The next candidate to enter the fray was the internet.  In this day and age, the connection divide at least in industrialized nations has largely been erased.  The medium erases transmissional barriers.  It allows for instant dissemination to anyone with a connection to it.

Much to my chagrin, it has failed also.  In part, because the developing world largely has more pressing needs than surfing the web.  In part, this is true because the developed world is more interest in using the internet as a porn delivery system.  And in part it’s true, because the character of those attempting to lead such movements always comes up short.

Recently, I was forced to accept that technology can’t ever revolutionize the way the gospel reaches the world.  Technology is about an engineered solution that transmits the exact message of the sender.  It is about the movement of ones and zeroes from point A to point B.  The gospel is about sharing the heart of God with the world.

It’s spiritual. It’s relational. It’s intimate.  It’s done best in the context of one life touching another as directed by the divine.  No implementation of a protocol can replicate that, regardless of how well intentioned or engineered.

Simply put, I had to accept that my overall premise was flawed.  Any technological solution will only serve as an adjunct to what already exists.  What I should have learned are the lessons the Bible teaches from the Tower of Babel narrative found in Genesis.  The story tells of the desire to build a great tower that reaches the heavens.  And so a united humanity decides to undertake this mission.  God then steps in and confuses their language, thus preventing its completion.

The text points out that God was concerned that a single unified humanity was a threat, because nothing would be impossible for them.  I have often been troubled by this narrative.  It doesn’t fit the mold we have for God.  God steps in to deny them the completion of their tower.  It seems petty of God.  It seems capricious.  It’s not logical for God to intervene in this matter in this fashion.

My problems with the narrative were resolved when I realized a few simple things.  The builders of the tower were operating in defiance of God’s command to scatter across the globe, multiply, and subdue the earth.  Their building of the tower was to avoid being scattered and to amass a name for themselves.  They attempted to use their technology to thwart God’s will.  God responded by insisting on his will and denying them the power of their technology by creating communication barriers.

God wasn’t concerned with just the tower.  He was concerned with what a united people might be capable of next.  If they could build a technological marvel in defiance of God’s desire for them to the contrary, then what else was possible for these humans?  What need would these people have for God?

The answer is simple.  They wouldn’t need God at all.  They could place themselves on God’s throne and do as they pleased.  Subsequently, God moved to prevent this, and every time since, when man has developed his dependence on a better mouse trap for him that cuts his dependence on the divine.  God has moved in to show his creation how little he really knows and understands.

How does this impact technology and God you ask?  Is God really calling us to a Luddite existence?  Should we all become Amish?  In a word, no.  What God is seeking of us in this venue is to seek him first.  We should set aside technology and live within the context in which we are planted.  Technology shouldn’t seek to revolutionize how the gospel is disseminated.  Rather it should be an adjunct to its flow.  It should be subservient to the spirit of God.

In other words, I learned that technology will always fail when it isn’t the servant in the relationship or when it is implemented by those seeking anything other than God’s will for this lives and those they are in relationship with.  The flow should be from God to his servants and from his servants to those God deemed it necessary to be reached.  In this flow God is sovereign and we serve him and any technology we use serves that end.  Anything else perverts this flow and makes a mockery of the proper process.

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Living in the Shadows

Posted on January 7, 2010 by Clark Goble| 3 Comments
By Clark Goble | January 7, 2010

I would like to begin this post with an apology for my lack of posting. It has not been my intention to neglect The Imperfect Disciples’ Blog, but as I explained to my co-contributor Todd recently, I have found myself in a bit of a writer’s funk. Please note that I said “writer’s funk” rather than “thinker’s funk.” I am still thinking about and contemplating the wonders of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and, if anything, I have been so overwhelmed recently by the magnificence of it all that I have found it difficult to reduce into mere words. I will continue to try however …

During our family Christmas celebration this past year I tried to form an analogy for our children between their anticipation of opening the presents and the anticipation we should all have concerning the return of Christ. After all, His gift is bigger than any gift we could ever receive! I explained to the kids that their anticipation of presents in this world was a mere shadow of the anticipation the whole world has for the second coming. In our day and age, it is as if nature itself is holding its breath.

I’m not sure what impact this analogy had on my children, but it has had a major one in my life. It has been playing in my mind since Christmas. In fact, I have been extending it to other things. For instance:

The love I have for my children is indescribable. Every day I pray for their safety, well-being and success. I take pride when they do well and cry when they fail. Every breath I take is taken with a thought of them. They have literally saved my life on many occasions … however; this is only a shadow of how God considers His children. The attitude and love I have for my children pales in comparison to the love He feels for each of us.

The passion I feel for my wife is hard to explain. I have tried to tell her how it is an emotion that I never felt before. She is a part of me and I of her. I am grateful for my relationship with Stefanie because the passion I feel for her is a glimpse of how I should feel towards Christ. I have been told before that I should be passionate for Christ and never quite knew what it meant to be passionate about anything. Because of my wife I get it now. When this passion expands and is extended towards Christ it is a wonderful thing and I am grateful for the lesson.

I often get angry when I see the injustice in this world. When I see the helpless abused and hurt it enrages me. This anger I feel is nothing compared the righteous anger of God. This world is His creation. How much His anger surpasses mine is immeasurable.

Finally, I am often stunned when I consider the blessings in my life. Just sitting in this chair and appreciating the peaceful room my wife has created sends shivers down my spine. I have been blessed with family, friends, a home … there is really too much to count yet they are nothing when compared to the blessing I received when Christ died on the cross. His sacrifice made it possible for me to enjoy the blessings I have now. It is because of Him that I look forward to the future.

This analogy can easily be extended towards any emotion you feel. I invite you to examine what you care about … what you’re passionate about … and give it God to see how it measures up to how He feels. I believe it impossible to measure His emotions, but He does give us a glimpse of them in the Bible. I look forwards to eternity with Christ but for now I will simply enjoy living in the shadows.

Thank you Christ.

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Majesty in the Manure

Posted on December 25, 2009 by Todd French| 3 Comments
By Todd French | December 25, 2009

Just over two millennia ago, a member of the trinity took on the robe of flesh, set aside his right to be God, and became fully mortal.  He entered the flow of events and our world in the way every being has entered it since Adam and Eve.  An obscure teenage virgin gave birth to God in the most humble of circumstances.  She gave birth to God amongst the livestock, because there was absolutely no room anywhere in the entire city for them.  The spirit that was there at the moment of creation that participated in the founding of the world was relegated to being born amongst the animals.  The God that participated in Genesis 1:1 was relegated to a place of poverty at his birth.

The first smells that entered God’s nostrils of flesh were most likely the stench of manure.  The prince of peace was subjected to a stink that we modern humans avoid at all costs.  He was wrapped in rags of cloth and laid in the place from which the livestock fed.  The co-owner of creation, at his birth, was left among the marginalized and the dispossessed.  It is important in viewing this scene not to view it with rose-colored glasses.  It is important not to see this in soft fuzzy lighting with an eye toward some nostalgic perspective.

God entered the world into squalor.  The scene at his birth was likely a chaotic one.  It is unlikely that Mary and Joseph were alone in the cave that functioned as a stable.  This place was likely filled with other poor travelers that couldn’t find lodging anywhere in Bethlehem. It is unlikely that this place had been cleared of animals.  And so it was that God came into the world among a crowded cave filled with the flotsam and jetsam that made up the bottom rungs of Jewish society at that time.   The stench of sweaty, unwashed people most likely mixed with the foul odor of the livestock and their decaying offal to create an overwhelming odor that I honestly cannot begin to imagine.

This moment at God’s birth was the fulfillment of the prophecy of Isaiah regarding, “A great light” and “Unto us a son is given”.  Our modern minds tend to focus on the great chorus of angels that heralded the birth of the Messiah and the Magi that came from the east.  We tend to try and avoid focusing on the stable in which the Christ was born.  And yet it is in this humble cave that an amazing event occurred.  A teenage virgin, engaged to a carpenter, gave birth to the prince of peace there.  And the miracle of this season took place.  The miracle that affirmed God’s will for his creation was brought to fruition there.

It is puzzling that the creator of the universe chose such a lowly place to enter the world he created.  The God that parted the Red Sea, gave Daniel comfort in the lion’s den, provided the support for Meshack, Shadrack, and Abednigo; entered the world in a place, and a time that none would have expected.  God confounded the expectations of his people as he began fulfilling his promise of a messiah.  The birth of the Messiah was primarily witnessed by livestock, the unlucky, the dispossessed, and a small band of shepherds. Not exactly a proper court for the King of Kings, but it is what God selected.

The moment of the birth of the Messiah was an amazing moment in time.  It was a majestic event that happened in the midst of manure.  I cannot help but be awed by it.  I cannot help but be left speechless when I consider it.  The march to the cross began in a stable filled with the fragrant aroma of decaying fecal matter.  The nostrils of the Messiah were filled with the stench of this life from His very first breath.  The stench of our sin, and degradation was in his nose from the very beginning.  And God didn’t run from it, or select a different place to avoid it.  God chose to step into this life in the most humble of circumstances and be exposed from the very beginning to the stench of our existence.  He chose to seek out his creation at its most raw and basal level.  He didn’t shrink from the appointment with us.  He welcomed it, he invited it, and he took it squarely head on, beginning with the moment of his birth.

In a lowly cave in Bethlehem, God came near to us two millennia ago.  He has chosen to abide with his creation.  He has chosen through substitutional sacrifice to impute value into his own, to impute his value into his own.  He chose to draw near to those capable of hearing his voice.  And he has never left us since.

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The Activist God

Posted on December 10, 2009 by Todd French| 3 Comments
By Todd French | December 10, 2009

There is a wealth of perspectives of God in this information age of ours.  These perspectives run the gambit from the atheist’s dead God, to the cessationists, deaf mute God, to the activist God, and everywhere in between.  As someone who’s toyed with a number of these perspectives over the course of my life so far, I’ve settled on the activist God perspective as the one that works best, at least for me.

There are a number of definitions for this perspective.  The one I like best is: a perspective that affirms God to be not only still active in the affairs of men, but as a being with a stake and a vested interest in the outcome.  A key attribute of this perspective relates to God’s firm resolve to bring his will into being in every situation by any means necessary. 

Distilling this personal definition into a functional understanding means for me that God hasn’t wandered off to something more entertaining. God isn’t hanging ten in Maui right now because the waves are just bitchin’.  He isn’t playing the back nine at Augusta because, as God, he gets a killer tee time.  He isn’t off playing in another sandbox, because it’s better than the one he created.   No, he is actively seeking to manifest his will in the everyday and mundane events of his creation with the explicit goal of bringing it back into relationship with himself.

More simply put, God isn’t a disinterested third party.  He isn’t the Watcher from Marvel comics.  He isn’t a neutral observer that mediates disputes in his creation.  God is an interested entity with an agenda.  He has skin in the game as it were.  He is a being that is seeking his creation’s best interest as he defines it.

Some might look at this exposition and think that I’ve reduced God to a lobbyist seeking to cajole his creation into doing what he wants.  While there are some in the “Name it and claim it” crowd that teach something very close to this, in my view nothing could be farther from the truth.  A lobbyist seeks to influence others into implementing his agenda or that of his client, through all the tools in the persuasion arsenal.  And while God does use some of these tools on occasion, there is another dimension to this.  God has the power to enforce his will in order to bring it into being.

Can a lobbyist fling stars into orbit?  Can a lobbyist speak life into existence?  Can a lobbyist speak the fate of man with absolute certainty?  Can a lobbyist heal the lame, give sight to the blind, and restore hearing to the deaf?  Can a lobbyist create eyes for a blind man from spit and mud?  Obviously not….

Can a lobbyist insist that a reluctant prophet go to Nineveh?  Can a lobbyist arrange a great fish as a method of conveyance to enforce his will?  Can a lobbyist insist on an outcome and have the ability to make it so 100%  of the time?  Obviously not…  God has the ability to do all of those things and much more.

The Bible clearly states that God has an interest in the lives of men and women.  It unambiguously shows that God has a heart for his creation.  It displays vividly that God has a burning desire to restore his creation to relationship with himself.  It demonstrates in absolute terms that this is a primary ministry of and mission for God.  It has played out numerous times in the Bible.  From Noah to Moses to Abraham and beyond we are surrounded by what the writer of Hebrews calls a ‘cloud of witnesses’ to this ministry of God.

Some read the bargaining God allowed by Abram regarding Sodom’s fate, as a hint of malleability in the will of God.  This is a valid conclusion to draw from this particular instance, but I think a flawed one.  God knew the outcome was not going to be affected by Abram’s bargaining.  The end result was ultimately the same; Sodom and Gomorrah were still the same smoldering holes in the ground they were going to be at the outset. God being the timeless being that he is understood that only in allowing Abram to bargain in some fashion could the life of Lot and his family be spared. And this was an important part of God’s agenda in this instance.  

We also see the activist God at work in the life and ministry of a reluctant and otherwise obscure prophet by the name of Jonah.  God calls him to go to Nineveh and Jonah balks.  From the text it doesn’t appear Jonah had any trouble with serving God or accepting the calling to the role of prophet.  He only has trouble with the specific ministry he’s been called to in terms of audience and geography.  Jonah’s response is to bail on the whole mission and ministry.

The possible reasons for Jonah’s balk are many.  Some have posited that he just didn’t want to go there for racial or cultural reasons.  While others have posited that Jonah knew God was planning to use the Ninevites as a tool to bring the Jewish people back into right relationship with him, by captivity if necessary.  Both possibilities, while valid interpretations of Jonah’s potential motives are largely arguments from silence.  There is no proof in the text for either position.

The only thing the text gives us for certain is that Jonah was convinced it would succeed.  It’s possible that his belief was based upon arrogance or vanity.  It’s also possible he was convinced that with God’s assistance anything was possible.  The text really doesn’t give us good window into Jonah’s thinking on this apart from that.

What is certain is that he was so unwilling to participate in the implementation that he fled for Tarsus aboard a boat.  And as a result he found an immutable truth about God in the process.  God gets what God wants.  If God wants a prophet in Nineveh, God doesn’t allow that individual to flee the calling at the appointed time.  When the time is right, there is nothing that can keep anyone from their appointment with God’s plan for their lives.  So our reluctant prophet ends up in Nineveh right on time to fulfill God’s plan for his life.  That by its very definition is activism on God’s part.

The story of Jonah is but one example of God’s activism.  There are many more.  From the angel in Balaam’s path to the story of Esther and beyond, they all prove the same point.  They all bear witness to a God that is either unable or unwilling to sit on the sidelines as the events of history unfold.  They speak to us even today that God’s will is unchangeable and immutable.  They inform us as to the character of the divine creature that spoke the world into existence.

And they should give us pause in our moments of rebellion against this God.  We should remember that the God of Genesis 1:1 who commanded the sun into existence by simply saying that it would be ‘good’ if it did, is the one with which  we’re toying.  We should remember the story of Jonah as we ponder our answers to God’s call on our lives.  It should force us to ask, does God have a great fish in waiting for me to deal with my stiff necked and stubborn nature?  And is God ready to consume me whole when I foolishly tell him to go get bent?

The consistent witness of this activist God should alter how we relate to him.  It should impose a certain amount of fear mixed with reverence and a dash of awe when we consider God.  If God wanted to he could give us an ‘offer we can’t refuse’ or cause us to awake with a horse’s head in our bed to get the point across.  God is however so much more resolved and determined when it comes to his will than a mafia lord.  Also if we give criminal thugs deference to avoid drawing their interest in us; how much more deference should we give Almighty God?   

 We should remember that the God that flooded the world in Noah’s time still exists.  We should be mindful that the God that destroyed Sodom for its manifest lack still resides at the center of our world.  It should give us pause that the God that thwarted the plans of the builders of the tower of Babel still remains committed to doing that very thing even today.  His nature is immutable and without a glint or glimmer of change in it.  If God wants something to happen or change, you can take it to the bank that it will.  God’s word doesn’t return void.  God always gets what God wants! 

This simple truth should change the very core of who we are.  It should force us to our knees in repentance.  It should fundamentally alter who we are and how we relate to the divine in our lives.  We shouldn’t tarry or dither when it comes to the essential nature of God’s call on our lives.  It should us force us to action.  It should put our feet in motion.  So let us begin.

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